Thursday, May 7, 2009

Windows 7 makes me laugh

I happen to be Dutch and if you're into Linux that is a major disadvantage. If countries were shops, The Netherlands would be a Windows-only shop. There are very few Linux magazines (err.. one!) and even that one I gave up reading, because even the columnists were on Microsofts hands. I happen to do a lot of writing and once offered a major magazine to write Linux articles. "Well," they said "Not many people are using Linux.. We'll call you." I'm still waiting. Consequently, even now there are people who still think Linux is a toy. Fortunately, I read German. If you happen to drive a Mercedes or a BMW, you know these guys know what engineering is. Linux is big over there. You know that SuSE was a German firm?

For most people in The Netherlands, an Operating System means Windows. If it's not Windows, it can't be a computer. So if a new version of Windows comes out, it is major news. I got this video from the site of a major Dutch commercial news show.



Yes, it is Windows 7 for sure. But listen to the background music.. it seems we're presented the best invention of sliced bread! Are you impressed? I'm not!

This is a Linux Compiz video. It has been on YouTube for two years. I don't think it has had many hits since then. Technology has improved, new and better effects are available. It's quite a lengthy video without any loud trumpets, so I guess you'll all be asleep before it ends. But it's neat, flashy and has very subtle background music.



In many ways it's like Linux itself. Humble, inconspicuous, fast and silently doing its job. I like it.

47 comments:

Anonymous said...

You're right. Well spoken!

Bobby said...

K├╝rzt und schmerzlos. A picture is worth 1000 words and a video 1000 that amount.
I like the way you write and that you get to the point so nicely.
I am living in Germany and can only confirm what you said, even the City of Munich moved to Linux for many reasons, which I am sure that the most people know.
Now to the videos. The windows 7 music seems to take one back in the past and the video itself is quite unimpressive.
I like the Compiz video. The music is very pleasant and doesn't distract and it shows people what it can do, like actions speak louder than words. That's why I love Linux and rate it above the others. There are two operating systems in this word for me. Linux and others ;)

Wilco said...

Sigh, Holland is a terrible country to be a linux user, i know.. Still trying to find a LUG near me (Amsterdam would be obvious) but no joy.

Ikon said...

You said it! MAYOR differences! And besides, while you need a powerhouse to do all the tricks on Windows, you only need a PC from the very beggining of this century. The lenght of the videos and the features shown ultimately gives full score for the linux :)

I gave upon Windows 3 years ago. Why? Because I couldn't get my job done as fast and comfortable as with a basic Linux desktop. This part of the world "shines". ^_^

Michael said...

Hans,

If you're living in a Microsoft shop, so are we here in Denmark.
In fact, I've used the term "Microsoft Lab" sometimes during the past...
...and we don't even have 1 (one, dammit!) Linux mag.

Your observations about Germany vs. Linux are correct (I dunno about the cars though, I'm more a Mazda-kind-of-guy...lol).

Yes, Microsoft is equal to an operating system for most people, also in these parts of Europe.
I think that's related to something else: Even though Microsoft occasionally release new products that would fail miserably in a QA-review in any other industry - apart from software - you gotta admit Microsoft is a real puppet master when it comes to marketing.

No other company in the entire IT-industry is able to generate such hype, "expert" comments, headlines in mass media etc.

Just my 2 cents.

//Michael.

r_a_trip said...

It's not that bad. There are other Dutch people using Linux. Me for example. So not every computer is Windows ;) When Linux makes its breakthrough, the conformist Dutch will adopt it straight away, because it has become the right thing to do.

It's true though that the mainstream computer magazines in The Netherlands are pathetic when it comes to reporting on computer technology. Every month there are reams of magazines on the shelves screaming from their covers the umpteenth feature article about how you can (try to) fix the inherent shortcomings of Windows. Linux is mentioned sparsely, Mac OS X doesn't even register.

When it comes to native language Linux publishing, we have the laughable Linux Magazine. The publisher of that rag should be ashamed about putting out such garbage. LM is chronically outdated. The quality of their articles veers wildly from amateuristic to highly specialist and the topics they cover don't connect to the Linux mainstream. A complete waste of money.

Then again, aren't dead tree publishers made obsolete by quality online publishing?

jrb said...

linux makes me laugh.

compiz fusion (at least the version in the video) is not that great for a couple of reasons

- it didn't even exist until the likes of apple and microsoft made a push for gpu accelerated user interfaces
- it values effects over usability

yes, windows 7, vista, or osx doesn't light its windows on fire, or having smoking menus, or whatever, but it's not designed to look like tech demo from the mid-90s. it's supposed be usable, and consistent.

sadly, this instance alone is one of the reasons most distros apart from ubuntu are failing.. a lack of a clear, consistent usable vision.

Sevi said...

Well yes I know what you mean. I think it much the same in the UK, where Linux is a dirty word in the eyes of most IT professional. Germany is a world apart.

I am from the UK, but work in Holland and have have a home in Germany.

However at the heart of this situation, I think is that Linux is lacking a unified marketing drive to raise awareness and win over (non tech like) fans.

Raviratlami said...

Great comparison!

Bluenix said...

De spijker op z'n kop. Kijk eens op http://ubuntustart.nl . Mocht je nog artikelen willen schrijven...

tartugo said...

I'm from Brazil and the things here are not too much different 99% of those computer users, Windows is the only one they don't even know what Linux is..
but i have to admit Germany rocks after a tour to europe passing by to Germany i became a Linux users...kool

i wish i could read german better, german linux magazines are very technical and well done.
Hanz i like your article and the same time makes me feel sad.
tks

The Beez' said...

@jrb
Compiz was released before Vista. Typical Windows FUD. Anyway, we may conclude MS haven't learned much since then, have they? Tell me, jrb, what would your story have been if it had been the other way around? Why didn't you cheer when we were still using a CLI? Because, for a real hacker, who needs these GUIs anyway?

The Beez' said...

Anonymous comment deleted because of profanity. When do you Windows users learn to write properly in the widest sense of the word?

Yes, it's true. Compiz offers dazzling effects Windows simply cannot provide. But I doubt it is because the remaining effects are so "well-researched".

Ikon said...

Everybody from the camp of Windows are defending themselves by complaining about "what do extra effects good for anyways?". My solid answer is, if you are using your computer to be more productive and you have the chance to discover and use a Compiz geared linux distro (in my case Ubuntu), then you realize, that these effects have some really wide range of configuration options. With tuning it to my liking, I have real power at my fingertip, provided by the Compiz itself.

I used windows from the 3.11 version till Vista. 3 years ago I happened to meet ppl who tought me some bits 'n things of the linux and pushed me on the way to become a real linux user. So all of you who think we are just say what we do because we used only linux and don't know jack about windows should consider looking into the linux world first a bit more deep before complaining.

Still I am not against windows, no! I say Linux is not for everyone. Yet windows is not for everyone too!
And so I just say, from what I have experienced, Linux is MY WORLD. Thank You! ^_^

PapoAnaya said...

I'm not sure if it makes you laugh or not, but the music from the Windows 7 thingy sounds like something that Bozo The Clown would've loved. I was expecting something a lot more impressing from the folks at Redmond though...

Bobby said...

When i read jrb's comment then I realize that the problem that the most WinDos users are having is pure envy of Linux and what it has to offer.
The Windows world still doesn't have anything to match Compiz and that hurts.
Yes Compiz is mostly about eye-candy but I am sure that some windows users would die for the type of eye-candies that the Linuxers have to choose from. Apart from that Compiz improves the overall desktop usability in contrast to what jrb is saying.

I don't see anything really excited about Win 7. it's offering improvements that I have been taking for granted on KDE (also originally German) for years. It's a cleaned up Vista, nothing more or less but I am still planning to install the RC for testing.

Phillip said...

@jrb

The funny thing is that while Compiz certainly has more useless effects than Win7 it also has more useful usability options as well. The stuff that Windows offers is just child's play honestly. I really couldn't go back to Windows if I wanted because its just not up to par. Windows 7 really DOES make me laugh.

Oh and as someone pointed out....Compiz came out BEFORE Windows Vista. MS is playing serious catch up.

The Mad Hatter said...

Hah. I dumped Windows 2 years ago, and I'm damned glad I did. My computers are stable now, and never need maintenance.

Windows is a sad joke.

Big Brother Is Watching said...

The UIs of the Linux distros are a joke, but the Linux OS is awesome.

Johannes said...

Hi from Germany!
Well, just wanted to say that it's still not perfect here - I hope Linux will continue growing!

Big Brother Is Watching said...

If you click on the video for the Windows 7 YouTube video, and click it again once more, it takes you to YouTube site. The creator said that it is "A video I made showing off some awesome features of Windows 7, including Aero Snap, Aero Peek, pinning programs to the taskbar and files to those programs, closing windows and controlling Windows M... "
This author is obviously a hater of Windows and Microsoft for not doing his due diligence before poking fun.

The Beez' said...

@Big Brother
C'mon, you know me. Did you really think I would leave that thread lying open for you to find? Note the comment: "A video I made showing off some AWESOME features of Windows 7." Did I add the music? Did I add "It's a triumph"?

I'm still not impressed, sorry.

WE ARE *NIXED! said...

I can watch videos of Windows 7 all day long, but the problem is this: I won't be able to say why it sucks as an operating system until I dive in and try it out. The RC is free to try until March (then they'll nag me... yay...), but by then I'll be able to make a fair assessment anyway. Why am I doing that? Simple: so I can know and understand what works and what doesn't. At that point, I can immediately tell other people why it sucks as an OS. I wrote this post here, and it was inspired by the discussion on LXer between you and Caitlyn Martin:

http://www.thenixedreport.com/blog/?p=24

Marti van Lin said...

Priceless Hans!

I actually installed Windows 7 RC last weekend. And none of the peripherals in this Acer Aspire 7220 where correctly recognized. I had to use another computer to download the Vista drivers for the nForce Ethernet adapter, Geoforce 7000M GPU, Atheros Wireless adapter (copied the drivers on a USB thumb drive and installed them on Win7).

After 12 hours of trying to establish a wireless connection. I gave up.

My conclusion is: Windows 7 is a pig, with an ugly color of lipstick on it. The Windows crowd is screaming how fast it is. The truth is: it's not.

When you first install it, it feels a bit snappier than Vista, but as soon as you install some software (I installed Skype and AVG Free). You will notice no significant improvement.

It's nothing but Marketing Hype (why am I not surprised?)

I Fully agree with Hans: Windows 7 makes me laugh as well!

Big Brother Is Watching said...

@Marti van Lin:

You forgot to say that you like Linux or OSX.

I like it all. I own PCs with Linux, OSX, and Windows. I personally believe the UI experience on Windows 7 is the best to date. It certainly beats OSX in my opinion. The Gnome or KDE interface needs working. They feel cheap -- somewhere between OSX and Windows 7 but uglier and feel dated.

I installed Windows 7 RC on an older system (Pentium 4, 512MB RAM) and it was a dog, whereas Ubuntu worked fine. I also installed Windows 7 RC on a higher end system and it is really fast. I personally prefer a higher spec system with Windows 7 because the UI experience is better.

Competition is good. If Windows was the only OS available, then we would not have the Linux distros and OSX, and we would still be stuck with Windows 95. (This is just an example, so don't beat me up on the possible timeline.)

What I don't understand is why certain individuals choose to be in 1 camp. Don't hate.

Anonymous said...

As a digital design engineer I would love to be able to use Linux as my primary desktop OS.

In fact, I have a dual boot system with Windows 7 RC1 x64 and Ubuntu 9.04 x64.

But the reasons Linux can't be used as a primary OS are simple, and I have been begging the Linux community to fix them for almost a decade now, and have done what I can to help.

The basic problem is simply this - you still can't fully browse the Internet with it. The various "plugins" such as Totem and Xine are incomplete at best, play some streams and don't play others and even then usually can't fast forward, rewind, or pause, and even with Moonlight there is no way to watch Netflix on it.

In fact, the best I've been able to do with Ubuntu is to install Firefox's Media Player Connectivity add on and direct it to use VLC to play everything. I have to go through a lot of extra clicks, and there are still a lot of things I can't watch, but like I said it's the best I can accomplish.

And I've tried both the 32 bit and 64 bit Ubuntu versions, and as far as multimedia they are both equally inadequate.

And it's a shame, because Linux is a far more secure and efficient OS, and Compiz puts anything Windows has to shame, and in fact I love the Wobbly Windows and Transparency while moving more than anything, and the Cube is not just eye candy, it's one of the best ways I've seen to implement multiple desktops.

Put without the ability to fully browse the Internet, Linux has lost the excellent opportunity it had to gain market share while Vista was dying.

Now usually after I make a post like this Linux enthusiasts will blame everything under the sun, mainly Microsoft, for Linux's poor Internet support, but the fact is that Linux developers have simply not given much attention or resources to this 800lb elephant in the room, and it is the Linux developers who have failed to deliver the basic Internet/Browser functionality that any modern OS must have to be successful.

The Beez' said...

@MS-Anonymous:
Poor Internet support? My dear munchkin, Internet was developed on Unix systems, long before Bill Gates stole the TCP/IP stack from BSD and glued it on Windows! More than half the servers on the Internet run Linux. And according to Google, the third of the servers running IIS privde over the half of Internet dangers like virusses and other malware.

BTW, the majority of video on the web is Flash, which runs just fine. I use media connectivity too with Mplayer or Kaffine. That covers around another 25 percent. I don't care about Silverlight. That is a patent trap and should - like DRM - be avoided and boycotted.

Big Brother Is Watching said...

I had to get away from this nonsensical debate about best and worse operating systems. I am now unsubscribed to this thread.

But before I go, I would like to say this -- Who cares who made what first when the best implementation now is what counts. I guess using the trash idea is also copied, but do we honestly care who came up with it first?

Mitch Muncrief said...

Mr. Beez,

Indeed much of the modern Internet was developed under Unix and Linux, and that makes its loss to Microsoft even more regrettable.

And Linux is indeed the hands down winner in the server market, but what we need to do now is win the desktop market, and claiming that all Linux need do is support Flash is shortsighted and incorrect.

Linux needs to, and can, support all the popular Internet multimedia standards, and Silverlight/Moonlight is Microsoft's first capitulation to open source, enabling 100% Internet equivalency.

If you were correct, then no one would buy Microsoft or Apple operating systems, because Linux is free.

I want Linux to succeed more than anything in my technological life, but its continued denial of what must be done, for almost a decade now, is literally destroying it.

So please, I ask only that you consider this.

If Linux could not win over Vista, then what could it win over?

Marti van Lin said...

@ Big Brother Is Watching:

There is no hate, only common sense and experience. The M$ Astroturfing lot and their dumb parrots are spreading bald faced lies as usual. Compared to KDE, Gnome and XFCE the look of Windows 7 is pretty much outdated. With its butt ugly over sized transparent panel. I can't recall what version of Gnome was installed on Redhat Linux 8.0 (2002), but it already supported a transparent pannel.

There is 0 INNOVA~1 in Vista7 it's yet another bad copy and paste job.

The Beez' said...

@Mitch Muncrief
You are incorrect on several issues. First, Silverlight is NOT FOSS. It was developed by the people who brought you the controversial Mono, not MS. It even NEEDS Mono. Mono is a problem, because it opens the door for MS to do another one of his IP tricks - note FAT, note TomTom. MS can simply not be trusted this way.

MS is NOT a standard. On the contrary, MS products are notoriously non-standard. A standard is published by some international body and not defacto on the design bureau of some MS department.

You say people CHOOSE MS. If that were true I had been given a choice in the shop. As a matter of fact, I do not have, so do most consumers. I have to do a great deal of effort in order to have my Linux "choice". Sometimes I cannot even avoid to "choose" MS, simply because I want the H/W. MS plays the same game with manufacturers or do you think all those fines are given because US and EU governments simply do not "like" MS?

Please stop twisting the facts.

Anonymous said...

Open Source Software makes me laugh , You enjoy GIMP ill enjoy Office 2010

The Beez' said...

Did you say "enjoy"???

Anonymous said...

@Marti -

If there's zero innovation, then how come no competitors have features equivalent to Libraries, Federated Search, Device Stage, HomeGroup, Jump Lists, Multi-Touch, Snap and Peek, etc?

No one cares about a "transparent panel." Red Hat 8 just like every other Linux desktop UI has a million options that all look just god awful.

It's ironic that you mention innovation, though, given how little has ever happened in the Linux world. Seriously, name one feature or design element in KDE / Gnome / Xfce / etc that wasn't a direct rip-off or an obvious mishmash of elements from Windows, Mac OS, NeXT, or Be?

I sure as heck can't think of any.

The Beez' said...

@Multi-Anonymous
You love all these Operating Systems and you hate ONLY Linux? My god, what have we DONE to you?!

WE ARE *NIXED! said...

Actually, I can think of an innovation: Virtual desktops with different wallpapers on each (KDE). I can also think of another piece of innovation: having a useable interface without so much bloat (XFCE). There's also KHTML. Without it, WebKit wouldn't have come into existence today. Also, what about the ability to completely change the look of a window? You won't find that in OS X. I dare say you won't find that in other operating systems (at least without third party modifications).

So much for the "lack of innovation" argument.

Marti van Lin said...

Anonymous wrote:

If there's zero innovation, then how come no competitors have features equivalent to Libraries, Federated Search, Device Stage, HomeGroup, Jump Lists, Multi-Touch, Snap and Peek, etc?Big deal a bunch of fancy names for a couple of functions that "competitors" already provide for years.

Quote:
No one cares about a "transparent panel."Then why do the Windows 7 fans sing such songs of praise about it?

Quote:
It's ironic that you mention innovationMicrosoft is the one who's always screaming "Innovation". Meaning, buy or steal a technology, rename it, pimp it a bit up, label it Micorsoft and then squeeze like a little piggy that Microsoft has invented another great INNOVA~1.

Quote:
though, given how little has ever happened in the Linux world.All mainstream Linux distributions release a major release on a 6 month scheme. In the meantime development continues. As soon as Version X has been released development of version X+1 starts. This is how little happens in the Linux world.

Quote:
Seriously, name one feature or design element in KDE / Gnome / Xfce / etc that wasn't a direct rip-off or an obvious mishmash of elements from Windows, Mac OS, NeXT, or Be?I seriously can't post a list, it would take me hours of work. Now name one feature in MS-DOS or Windows which isn't a direct rip-off of CP/M, Unix, Linux, MacOS, NeXT, BeOS, AmigaOS, GEM, or VMS?

FYI: MS-DOS was nothing but an illegal copy of CP/M by Tim Paterson. Microsoft simply bought it. Then ported exiting BSD code to it and bought technologies of other companies, like Central Point Software (PC-Tools). One fine day Microsoft integrated defrag, mirror, undelete and unformat to MS-DOS and Central Point and their wonderful PC-Tools suit, disappeared in oblivion.

You are defending a convicted monopolist and try to justify their slopware.

OxayotlTheGreat said...

I love the music !
Reminds me of the Warcraft II soundtracks, one of the best soundtracks ever.

By the way, Metacity with compositing pwns \o/ !

Andrew Baker said...

I am using windows 7 RC , windows 7 is really much better than windows vista.

Thanks
www.iyogi.co.uk

Stephen said...

First of all, Beez, you're just preaching to the choir. Because you're *so* into Linux, you're absolutely no way in touch with what the majority of Windows users want and do with their OS as a whole. Compiz and all this stuff, if it doesn't do it OOTB with Windows, there are applications that will do it -- most, free.

Second, the amount of money and research that is put forth in Microsoft's usability tests -- along with how closely they interact with their clients -- is what dictates HEAVILY what will be in the final product. The majority of people who want these flashy effects are minimal. Would it be cool to have? Sure, it's cool to watch in a video, but it's a novelty, not something made to make life easier from the stance of usability.

Long story short, if there was an actual reason that would benefit every user in the Windows ecosystem, Microsoft would put it there. That's it! I know you think Microsoft should be listening to people like *you* instead of the people who actually purchase their product and want to use it, but... I hate to inform you, they couldn't care less about what you have to say -- nor do the millions of other happy Windows users around the world, no matter how blind or ignorant you may think they are! Microsoft makes a product their users and clients pay for and use. Case and point.

Now, I'm not saying Compiz or anything else are bad products. I'm not saying Windows is the be-all and end-all product in the OS world. What I'm saying is that your complaints and notable points are simply falling on deaf ears if not for your audience here on your blog.

If people cared enough to go completely adopt a new OS just to take advantage of something like Compiz, they would. Simple as that. As for points considered with Microsoft having the money to market, well... that's just tough sh*t, my friend! I might make the best freakin' beer you've ever tasted in your life, but even with a huge cult following, I probably wouldn't stand a chance against the big boys of the beer industry. That still wouldn't stop me from kicking and screaming like you're doing, but you're really starting to sound more bitter and angry than a proponent for a product that you truly feel will make the world of computing a more user-friendly and easier place.

Just my 2 cents. Thought I would stop by and see how my good ol' Linux buddy was doing. =)

-Stephen @ msftkitchen

The Beez' said...

@Stephen
I tell you what I tell every other Windows user: in the early times they said: "Look at Linux, it looks so horrible! (Beevis and Butthead laugh)". Still, people could work with it very well. Only now the tables are reversed, it doesn't really seem to matter anymore. Strangely enough, the people of OS/X seem to care. And obviously, floating bubbles around the screen are SO useful and well researched.

Frankly, it is well known MS research goes nowhere and just wastes the dollars of their stockholders, note Bob, Clippy and the blue ribbon interface.

Stephen said...

The Beeeeeez:

You said: "Frankly, it is well known MS research goes nowhere and just wastes the dollars of their stockholders, note Bob, Clippy and the blue ribbon interface."

Bob? Clippy? Seriously? You're going to selectively pick those two things out of EVERYTHING SUCCESSFUL and USEFUL that has come out of Microsoft's R&D and say, "oh, well, everyone knows M$'s R&D is useless!" HA! Thanks for the laugh!

And I guess you don't care about the INNUMERABLE useless things to go into any given flavor of Linux over the years, huh? Naturally, that doesn't matter because Linux gets that free pass: "It's free, so why not play with it and experiment?" Hey, whatever floats your boat, my friend. No one had to purchase Bob and Clippy was easily disabled.

And as for the ribbon interface, where the heck are you getting your data -- a couple of lazy bloggers who refuse to cope with change? The success and usability genius that is the ribbon bar is the reason why they constructed much of Windows 7's every day applications around it. You see, Microsoft is damned if they do, damned if they don't. They can't please everyone and the problem with people like you is that you draw your factoids from the very-few-yet-very-vocal people who aren't happy, all while neglecting the FAR outweighing positive reflections on an OS so many people use and love. The way you see it is if Microsoft isn't pleasing you or any of the Linux world (see: people who don't use the OS in the first place outside of perhaps at work, and even then, it's probably not Windows 7), then they're not pleasing anyone. My friend, your world view is terribly skewed by too much one-sided perspective.

While I agree that Microsoft's budget for R&D is up there, the company has created for themselves a breeding ground of innovation and invention. Here again, while the article you posted is very vocal, it's full of opinions from people who think they know what it's going to take for THEM to make money -- they don't want Microsoft to innovate or potentially waste a dime, they just want MONEY. That's all it boils down to. And you know what? If you're an investor, then that's your mentality and that's fine but then you get someone like you who comes along and says, "see? Because this guy feels like this, Microsoft's R&D is pointless."

WRONG.

...cutting here to post in a second post since I'm over the character limit...

Stephen said...

...continuation from previous comment...

A product of Microsoft Research that's now in its incubation phase, it will be interesting to hear what you Linux folks say about Midori once it becomes Microsoft's next flagship OS. I sure hope -- for your sake -- that the developers of Linux are paying close attention to where everyone else in the OS world is going...

Oh, and let's not forget this one gem you undoubtedly missed from that very same article you quoted since we're talking about Windows:

"Barnicle says that Microsoft's main problem is an image battered by Vista. "There's the perception that Vista wasn't a successful product launch but it's been fairly successful from a financial standpoint. There have been mounting concerns all decade that Microsoft's business is going to be hurt from open source and that has never materialized, hurt from Google's Web Office application offerings, from open source versions of Office and those things never materialized," he said. "Microsoft has made its numbers. If you look at the Discounted Cash Flow (DCF) analysis, the stock price is suggesting that cash flow is going to decline at 3% a year in perpetuity and that's not going to happen.""

Hmm, that's funny! I'm sure you probably had it made up in your mind that Vista was a complete failure for MS financially, didn't you? Don't deny it...

And lastly, the success of Windows 7 in the consumer market bested even analyst expectations. But even *you* know that Linux will never stand a chance in that market -- especially if Apple is having as difficult a time with it as they are (and they *do* have the money to advertise as much as Microsoft and they certainly use it). You want change in the enterprise, right? Then why don't you get out there and do something about it?

Enterprises don't want to move away from Windows XP. Well, why don't you get out there and show them how easy it would be to migrate their whole systems over to Linux and show them why it would behoove them for their employees to learn Linux instead of learn Windows 7? You've got a whole WORLD of enterprises just waiting for someone like you to show them the golden path of Linux, so why don't you get out there and do it instead of complain about it? Now is one of the best times you'll ever get to do that with as many enterprises as there are that simply do not want to upgrade. Good luck with that one!

-Stephen =)

The Beez' said...

@Stephen
The validity of my argument comes from two things: first, with all the words you used you still couldn't mention ONE SINGLE thing that MS research produced. I don't think that an OS/X rip-off is proof of that. The blue ribbon IF was so successful that small companies made a nice living of SELLING addon's that reverted it to the old IF.

How MS is doing financially is not my concern, I'm obviously not a stock holder. And yes, in my small way I'm showing people how to make FOSS work, which is not easy in an MS-infested country. I wish I were in Germany.

As long as I don't have a choice at the counter or my workplace whether I can use MS or FOSS I'm considering your other remarks futile.

Stephen said...

@The Beez

No, the validity of your argument had nothing to do with what I did or didn't produce, because you asked me to product no such thing initially -- you simply tried to make a point which was invalid and unsubstantiated. Surely you're not so anti-Microsoft that you would willingly remain ignorant to what MS Research does indeed produce... or maybe you would.

What you do or do not find a valid result of MS Research is a matter of personal opinion, but if you want to see RESULTS (remember, no matter what you personally think about them) is just a click away:

Microsoft Research

Spend a little bit of time there and maybe you'll broaden your world view a little bit and actually surprise yourself at the things Microsoft Research is producing. I'm not saying everything MS does is gold -- far from it. But for you to imply there's not ONE SINGLE THING that Microsoft Research has produced with some validity to it is... well, incredibly baffling, to say the least.

As for the ribbon, once again, I implore you substantiate your claim. Sure, there are plenty of plug-ins that revert Office 2007 back, but do you know why people use them? Because people hate change -- even if it will behoove them in the long run. I hated the ribbon when I first tried it. Hated it. But then, I took just an hour to relearn it and guess what? I truly am more productive in how I use the applications that have it.

See, the proof that it DOES work and IS successful IS the fact that so much of it is built into Windows 7, first off, and second, because they are wrapping up development on a completely new version of Office and guess what it uses? See, this isn't the mom 'n pops Microsoft where they're hanging onto Clippy, Bob, and the characters that are in XP's search and all that garbage. Those days are long gone and Microsoft has learned from it.

So, again, I urge you to show me just how much money these places selling their plug-ins are making off of them. Prove your point. What constitutes "making a decent living off of plug-ins" in your eyes? You think these people are making their bread and butter off of ribbon-reverting plug-ins alone? Uh, I *highly* doubt it and you're the one with the burden of proof on your shoulders since you seem to think so.

Lastly, how can you say what Microsoft does financially is of no importance to you? Maybe not directly, but what their financial success implies about them is VERY crucial and it matters! Especially when they tell you how Windows is doing, specifically. Their financial success with Windows 7 made a HUGE statement to analysts whose estimates were bested. Yes, that means Windows is HERE TO STAY and Microsoft is simply counting down the days 'til Midori, all the while improving Windows for its users -- not for Linux's users.

-Stephen

The Beez' said...

@Stephen
I wonder how you can be productive with Word AT ALL. Even a hanging paragraph is an impossible task! Even the guys at c't - arguably one of the finest mags in the world - cannot keep a image in its place. How many people blew up their "massive" Word document is beyond me. I wouldn't touch a thing that says goodbye to a file it produced itself with a faint smile from Dr Watson with a pole!

mahasiswa teladan said...

hi..Im student from Informatics engineering, this article is very informative, thanks for sharing :)